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Old 03-15-2013, 03:33 PM   #11
DocsMinnieElixer
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Thank you again. I passed on the reins pictured and I am looking at a new pair of 8 plait rawhide reins that I am considering but I would like to be sure they are what I need before I commit. They are marked as being made by "Chauca", not sure if anyone is familiar with this braider? Anyhow, they look to be of good quality and are more than I was hoping to spend but they seem to be well made.

I had looked at the jeremiah Watt bits and I didn't see one that seemd to be a more traditional style. If anyone has a link or pic to a suggested Jeremiah Watt bit that would be wonderful, in case I missed something?

The horse I am riding is a 4 year old mare. She has been on and off in reining training and I have been taking reining lessons with the trainer inbetween to help progress her on my own. So she is fairly "broke" in the bridle, but I decided I wanted to work toward making her a true bridle horse so I have sort of started over with her. She has been in the hackamore and works really well in it, better I think than in a bit. I am moreso wanting to get my two rein rig set up just so I have it, but I plan on riding her most of the year in the hackamore before I go to the two rein. I've found the work I'm doing in the hackamore to be beneficial and working through things I've struggled with her before using it. She tends to get cranky, keeps ears back a lot, and can get a little resentful of anything that requires effort on her part(she is very lazy). She's incredibly leevl headed and dead quiet, but that is also a problem sometimes because she reminds me of a geriatric horse sometimes. She does all the reining maneuvers, likes to hunt a cow, and is easy to control all parts of her body and collects easily without having to get in her face.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:34 PM   #12
DocsMinnieElixer
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These are the new reins I'm trying to make us my mind on marked "Chauca"
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:26 AM   #13
Corry
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I'm so glad I found this forum. The questions posted here are exactly those I bear in my mind too. Thank you very much, Baquero and all the others contributing, for sharing your knowledge with us.

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Originally Posted by Baquero View Post
The number one reason is because the gear they are using inhibits there ability to communicate properly with there horse, this is frustrating for the horse and the rider.
You are so right, Baquero. I'm glad I decided to buy good quality from the very beginning on although I first had to wait and work hard until I saved all the money needed for it. Now this is really paying off. I just started my Arab in the two rein. Yesterday, we had our third ride in the two rein. From the very first moment he really loved the bit which is a Jeremiah Watt bit with a San Joaquin mouthpiece. He took it willingly and instantly started to play with the cricket. He carried the bit calmly and showed no signs of uncertainty although he never had something like that in his mouth before.

The feel when I rode him overwhelmed me. Never before I experienced such a high degree of communication with the horse. I had the feeling I could influence the postion of each single of his vertebrae. Straightness is the big issue with him and with the combination of bosal and bit I could achieve the best result in straigthen him out ever. And, as a result, when he became straighter than ever, I could also activate his back better. The energy from his hindquarters could work through his whole body to an extent I could never achieve with the snaffle, or the bosal alone, before.

In the last over 30 years I tried all kinds of bits and bitless bridles which are common in dressage and Texan-style riding. In my opinion the Californio-style tack is paramount with regard to communication between horse and rider.

Here you can see an Arab horse in Canadian weather conditions in Germany in Californio-style tack If you see something in this picture that is not correct please don't hesitate to criticize. I'm very grateful for any piece of advice how to improve my riding.



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Originally Posted by Baquero View Post
The spoon is swept back at a steep angle and I don't like the design of the braces.
May I ask what it is what you don't like about the braces? Their shape? Or their surface?

Happy trails
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:36 AM   #14
DocsMinnieElixer
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Do you mind telling me where you found your jeremiah watt bit? When I search for jeremiah watt bits I do't come up with a "home site" just different dealers and they didn't have any bits even close to yours. They were all more "reining-style" with a plain narrow shank. Some of them had joaquin mouthpieces but nothing with a santa barbara style cheek and definitely nothing with braces on them. Thanks!! Your romels look beautiful also! I'm having a hard time finding a pair that are that thin. I was told the ones in my picture are 3/8" wide, is that pretty wide, are they usually thinner?
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:51 AM   #15
Baquero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocsMinnieElixer View Post
They are marked as being made by "Chauca", not sure if anyone is familiar with this braider? Anyhow, they look to be of good quality and are more than I was hoping to spend but they seem to be well made.

I had looked at the jeremiah Watt bits and I didn't see one that seemd to be a more traditional style. If anyone has a link or pic to a suggested Jeremiah Watt bit that would be wonderful, in case I missed something?
I am unfamiliar with "Chauca" it's hard to give a suggestion without handling the reins or know how they will handle once they are broken in. For what it is worth, I know a few people who have some of the less expensive reins from www.buckaroobusinesses.net and have had good success with them.

The link for Jeremiah Watt is www.ranch2arena.com, in the upper right corner it will have a drop down menu for the different items. It can be a confusing page so I will post the links to the mouth offerings. http://www.ranch2arena.com/acmouthpage.html is the arena mouth page which has the half breed, san juaquin, and mona lisa mouth pieces. And then the Spade bit mouth page is http://www.ranch2arena.com/jwp-newmouth.html I should get paid for all the business I am referring that or start my own store...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corry View Post
Here you can see an Arab horse in Canadian weather conditions in Germany in Californio-style tack If you see something in this picture that is not correct please don't hesitate to criticize. I'm very grateful for any piece of advice how to improve my riding.

Great looking horse Corry, nice two-rein set up. Thanks for sharing the picture and your insights. Very few people really understand the two-rein. But it is an essential part of making a good bridle horse. I learned early on to embrace each phase of the horsemanship. I want to be very proud of my horses in the hackamore before moving on to the two-rein. Then many people get rushed once there is a bit in the horses mouth. I have found that if I focus on being proud of my two-rein horse before working on getting him straight up in the bridle I put together a nice horse usually. There is an incredible amount of communication that goes on in the two-rein.

If I had to be nit picky I would suggest taking 2-4 links out of your rein chains. I like my reins to have a specific angle coming off of the bit. If the chains are too long then the chains have more of a droop to them in relation to your reins. You want your reins and chains to look like one continuous rein. It looks like with the length of rein that you have, you need to choke up on your grip to make a signal with the bit. I also prefer a browband headstall vs the split ear. Everyone has there opinion and what works with the way you ride and the way I ride are different. Also how tall you are and length of the reach of your arms can alter things. One of the things you learn pretty quickly about horsemanship is that there are very few "definitives" as much as we wish there were. This is why we all have to ride with an open mind. In the end play around with it and see what works for you, I will also say that I usually ride with a few more links in my rein chains when first starting out in the two-rein, it helps keep the weight on the bit and allows them to learn to pack it before I pick up on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corry View Post
May I ask what it is what you don't like about the braces? Their shape? Or their surface?
Again this is just my opinion from my experience, understanding, and what I have seen from others. The things I don't like about the braces of the bit that was posted are that they are too thin and the angles are too flat. Some of the purposes of the braces are they allow the horse to "brace" against the maneuvers of the bit. If the wires are too thin and not wrapped your horse will most likely become a head tosser. Because the surface area of the braces is thin and uncomfortable.

I also like a fair amount of space between the braces and the cannon bar and the port. I will try and give an example using letters on the keyboard, maybe I will post some picture examples later. If the following were pictures of the braces and port "/|\" (Example 1) "JIL" (Example 2) Notice the space between the braces and the port in the first one, verses the steep angle of the braces in the second example. The second example is a 90* angle, I like it closer to a 45* angle. I also like space between the cannon bar and the braces, they should not rest on the cannon bar. This space allows the horse to work it's tongue and properly "pack" the bit. It is hard for the horse to be able to "pick up and carry" the bit without that space. Also the copper wire or rollers that the braces are wrapped in help the horse to relax in the bit. I love to see foam or my horses slobber with a bridle bit. I like to picture them saying "nom, nom, nom" as they hold that bit. Like they are sucking on a lollipop. The braces also act as a signal so I like a little bit of movement in them, enough that they move but not enough that the horse can't pick it up. Every horse is different and every bit is different. It can be good advice to find someone with a few of them and see what works for your horse before buying one.

The thing I don't like about the spoon in the bit that was pictured is that the angle of the spoon should match the angle of the horses natural headset. The one pictured is swept too far back for most horses I have seen. The horse won't pick up that bit because the spoon will lay against the back of the horses tongue and they won't be comfortable.

Last edited by Baquero; 03-17-2013 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:04 PM   #16
DocsMinnieElixer
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Thank you for the links to the Watt bits. I think I may have seen the ranch2arena at one point during my searching but thought it was yet another dealer with a pretty thin selection of just the common snaffles, etc. That makes it a lot easier to navigate! I will pass on that Sleister bit.

I did go ahead and order those Chauca reins. The only other info I saw about Chauca was just that he is a rawhide braider from Peru, and his rawhide gear is being sold exclusively by www.traditionalrawhidebraiders.com
If for some reason I don't like the feel of them I will just sell them like I have the last two pairs. Haha! I'm upgrading a little more each time at least.

I do have another question if you aren't sick of me picking your brain yet. Is a 1/4" bosalita too thin for a two rein setup, or not typically used? I had purchased one and wasn't sure if the 3/8" is usually the only size used for a two rein?
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:06 PM   #17
Corry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocsMinnieElixer View Post
Do you mind telling me where you found your jeremiah watt bit?
Although the gear is fine I cannot recommend the shop where I bought it. The guys there are pretty chaotic and unreliable. I will never order there again. I saw that in the meantime Baquero indicated other sources for the bits. I hope you will find soon what you like.
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:00 PM   #18
Corry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baquero View Post
I learned early on to embrace each phase of the horsemanship.
I like this statement and attitude. This is the way I start every single ride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baquero View Post
There is an incredible amount of communication that goes on in the two-rein.
Yes, it's awesome. I think I became addicted to it


Quote:
Originally Posted by Baquero View Post
If I had to be nit picky I would suggest taking 2-4 links out of your rein chains. [...] It looks like with the length of rein that you have, you need to choke up on your grip to make a signal with the bit.
That's true! I did have to choke up on my grip. But I thought it was due to my being unskillful and not having found the proper grip for me yet. I removed 4 links today because the horse is not a tall one and also quite delicate. And I'm not a tall person, too. This change turned out to be a huge improvement. The handling was much easier and more precise. Thank you so much for that great piece of advice. I highly appreciate it And my horse, too, I think

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baquero View Post
I also prefer a browband headstall vs the split ear.
I already had in mind to get him a browband headstall. This is kind of a temporary solution since the horse has a pretty small head and no other of my headstalls fitted him.


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Originally Posted by Baquero View Post
This is why we all have to ride with an open mind.
This is true not only for riding, isn't it?

Thank you also for your explanations regarding the braces and the shape of the spoon. Very helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baquero View Post
I like to picture them saying "nom, nom, nom" as they hold that bit. Like they are sucking on a lollipop.
This is a nice picture. My horse did that today when I dismounted and led him back to the barn. He really loves that bit.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:44 PM   #19
Baquero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocsMinnieElixer View Post
I do have another question if you aren't sick of me picking your brain yet. Is a 1/4" bosalita too thin for a two rein setup, or not typically used? I had purchased one and wasn't sure if the 3/8" is usually the only size used for a two rein?
The purpose of this forum if I am not mistaken is to pick peoples brains and discuss things. You have to remember that there are no definitives in horsemanship. The 3/8th's is what is typically used, however you should be fine using a 1/4" It might actually fit underneath the bridle bit better than the 3/8ths does. I have noticed that on some of the modern bits there isn't as much room to fit a bosal underneath the bit as some of the older bits, the headstall hangers don't flare out as much today as they used to.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:20 AM   #20
DocsMinnieElixer
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Thank you, my mare seems to work just fine in the 1/4" but I didn't know if I would be helping myself and my horse with the 3/8 or if the 1/4 would be too soft or not have enough feel. Excited to get the new romel reins and see how they feel. Keeping fingers crossed!
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