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Old 05-01-2013, 06:28 PM   #21
Baquero
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Compared to the others, this is smoother, quieter, careful and softer. I think the backing up in a circle is a modern twist. But its so pretty, it's almost boring.
I really like this horse, he is going to be a good one if Jeff keeps him around long enough. I don't think the backing in a circle thing is modern, I do this often as an exercise on getting my horses freed up. There are also situations when I am doctoring that I need to do more than just take the slack out of the rope and being able to back on a curve is helpful.

In all these videos there are a number of nice horses who are "in the bridle" but I have only seen one that was "straight up in the bridle" this is what I am having a hard time finding an example of.
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Old 05-04-2013, 07:42 AM   #22
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I really like this horse, he is going to be a good one if Jeff keeps him around long enough. I don't think the backing in a circle thing is modern, I do this often as an exercise on getting my horses freed up. There are also situations when I am doctoring that I need to do more than just take the slack out of the rope and being able to back on a curve is helpful.

In all these videos there are a number of nice horses who are "in the bridle" but I have only seen one that was "straight up in the bridle" this is what I am having a hard time finding an example of.
What is the difference between straight up and in the bridle?
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:31 PM   #23
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What is the difference between straight up and in the bridle?
The best way to explain it is to understand the two definitions that have come to the phrase "straight up in the bridle" To make a real bridle horse in my opinion you need to achieve both definitions.

Definition #1 "In the bridle" He has graduated from the two-rein and is working solely off of the bridle bit one handed, without fingers between the reins. This refers to the equipment used and the way the gear is handled. I hear a lot of talk from riders that a bridle horse is complete when a horse has passed through the stages of the two-rein. The bridling stage is another stage of training for the horse. This is often where the extreme lightness comes from. His training "In the bridle" leads him to be "straight up in the bridle"

Definition #2 "Straight up in the bridle" He works in a balanced straight frame. This definition refers to the level of training. It is hard to find a horse these days that has been given the time to develop the muscle and ability to work in this manner. I had it once described to me by comparing the bridle horse to a professional ballerina or black belt in Taw Kwan Doe, when someone has put in this much training to there trade, they carry there body in a very refined way. Ballerinas can walk with a book balanced on there head and a black belt will walk with lightness in his feet and is balanced in his motion, they are very poised. A bridle horse that is straight up will work straight (most are not straight these days) and balanced. This comes from hours of working the horse correctly through the stages of the hackamore, two-rein, and finally in the bridle. I have observed that a lot of horses today never end up "straight up" in my opinion because of the lack of understanding as to the purpose of the two-rein and schooling beyond the two-rein.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:28 PM   #24
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:03 AM   #25
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Technically, there is no difference. It is a term used that means you are now working with the bit alone, without the bosalito, or two rein. You are now straight up. Whether or not your horse works very well in it is another thing.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:20 AM   #26
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Technically, there is no difference. It is a term used that means you are now working with the bit alone, without the bosalito, or two rein. You are now straight up. Whether or not your horse works very well in it is another thing.
I disagree, there are two terms here, as Richard Caldwell explained and I emphasized in my last post. There is being ridden "in the bridle" and a "straight up bridle horse." Over time these terms have lost there meaning. A horse is not "straight up" if he has advanced from the two-rein and only being ridden with a bit alone. If a horse is straight up he is able to ride between the reins, with the emphasis being on the supporting rein instead of the leading rein. If you can ride him without using the leading rein you are beginning to get a horse that is "straight up in the bridle. The old california bridle horses were poised and graceful because of the way they were ridden and the level of communication.

It may seem strange that we are debating semantics, but in this case I think it is important. There has been a lot lost over the years and I think distinguishing the difference between the two terms helps to show this. There are many horses today being ridden "in the bridle" but very rarely do you ever see one who is "straight up" anymore.
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:26 PM   #27
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Working off the support rein would be called a neck rein. Which would go without saying, since you are riding one handed.
Richard Caldwell made the point that one is forced, the other is not. Well, that is a subjective view point. I understand it, because you can hardly say, look at that great bridle horse, if he is being pulled around and looks awfull. But if you use Ed Connell as any reference, he states quite simply that straight up means you are now in the bridle alone, one handed. That's all. I can find no reference in Rojas or Connell that states that one term meant you were poised and graceful, and the other meant you were crude and forced your horse. The are used interchangeable. To differentiat is a modern interpretation, I suppose to differentiate between a real good Californio type bridle horse, and say a cutter, or just a cowboy riding in a grazer bit.
If you are talking early Californio Vaqueros, aside from plow horses,cart horses, and war horses, there were no other kind of stock horse to compare to in those times.
In fact, who actually knows when the term, straight up started? We should be careful not to interject personal opinion presented as historical facts.
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Old 10-10-2013, 07:35 PM   #28
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Would it be fair to say that the straight up part should procede the bridal, meaning your horse works balanced in the hackamore and this your cue to introduce the spade?
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Old 10-10-2013, 08:13 PM   #29
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IF I want to covey to someone how I am trying to ride the filly, it is in a "straight up" fashion. But the real meaning of the term means that you horse is now trained to be ridden in a bridle. We should not change terms to satisfy modern interpretations, if we want to preserve tradition and history.
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:47 PM   #30
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Working off the support rein would be called a neck rein. Which would go without saying, since you are riding one handed.
Richard Caldwell made the point that one is forced, the other is not. Well, that is a subjective view point. I understand it, because you can hardly say, look at that great bridle horse, if he is being pulled around and looks awfull. But if you use Ed Connell as any reference, he states quite simply that straight up means you are now in the bridle alone, one handed. That's all. I can find no reference in Rojas or Connell that states that one term meant you were poised and graceful, and the other meant you were crude and forced your horse. The are used interchangeable. To differentiat is a modern interpretation, I suppose to differentiate between a real good Californio type bridle horse, and say a cutter, or just a cowboy riding in a grazer bit.
If you are talking early Californio Vaqueros, aside from plow horses,cart horses, and war horses, there were no other kind of stock horse to compare to in those times.
In fact, who actually knows when the term, straight up started? We should be careful not to interject personal opinion presented as historical facts.
We can't merely refer to Rojas and Connell as the definitives either. I don't consider this personal opinion or a modern interpretation. It is something I have been taught by a few old timers. There is a difference between a horse merely riding in a bit and one that is straight up.

Depending on who you're talking to and how many hairs they want to split In the bridle could still mean that it is a two-rein horse, but not that common. "I have him in the bridle" Straight up is absolute bridle horse, the Two-rein has accomplished the goals and now he is a straight up Bridle horse. Straight up means so much more than just a bridle horse. I was at a stock competition a few years ago with an old timer, there were lots of really nice horses. He was watching and made the comment "That horse is straight up" Lots of horses can be called out a bridle horse but to be trained in other ways. Straight up is the ultimate of the Vaquero's craft

You might work on a ranch and there can be bridle horses there that u ride but they're not necessarily straight up even though you're still riding them without the two-rein. From there you would decide depending on the individual hand, to take him back in Hackamore and fix some holes or put him back in the two rein, so that you can one day have a straight up sure enough bridle horse.
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