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Old 09-10-2013, 11:06 AM   #1
Baquero
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Default Self Carriage

This should turn into a neat discussion, what does it take for a horse to develop proper self carriage. There is a lot of discussion about collection and false collection. What is it that makes a horse properly carry itself, and how do you achieve it?
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:27 PM   #2
Jimmy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baquero View Post
This should turn into a neat discussion, what does it take for a horse to develop proper self carriage. There is a lot of discussion about collection and false collection. What is it that makes a horse properly carry itself, and how do you achieve it?
Wow, you just want to know the simple stuff. lol. I've been riding for over thirty years. I'll ride for twenty more, and a few more hundred horses, then I might be able to talk intelligently about this. I'll get back to you.
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:51 AM   #3
Baquero
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I believe it is something that we overcomplicate. And a simple understanding of it will change the way you ride, or attempt to ride. I also think it is one of the foundational principles of classic horsemanship.
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Old 09-14-2013, 06:48 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Baquero View Post
I believe it is something that we overcomplicate. And a simple understanding of it will change the way you ride, or attempt to ride. I also think it is one of the foundational principles of classic horsemanship.
The main foundational principle of classical riding is in achieving a high degree of collection and maintaining that collection, and a horse being able to hold it in self carriage. Passage, piaffe, cantering in place. Look at the work of Nuno Oliveira. My point is most of us have never trained a horse to that degree. I am working on one horse teaching passage and canter pirouettes. The spanish type horses are the best fit for a horse that sits on his hocks in this fashion. But on the other hand, a horse standing quitely, without restraint, could be said to be in self carriage at the whoa. lol
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:22 AM   #5
Hiebz
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self carriage...my understanding is that it is a posture that allows complete relaxtion..but the body is in a state of tension or degree of tonus which is most favourable for the next move, faster reaction time and higher coordination.

How do we get it? We have to teach the horse to turn his back off and work from his core, same as all atheletes. Bruce Lee would call it the on guard position.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:52 AM   #6
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For the record the above post Is just a guess
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:38 PM   #7
Jimmy
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Originally Posted by Hiebz View Post
self carriage...my understanding is that it is a posture that allows complete relaxtion..but the body is in a state of tension or degree of tonus which is most favourable for the next move, faster reaction time and higher coordination.

How do we get it? We have to teach the horse to turn his back off and work from his core, same as all atheletes. Bruce Lee would call it the on guard position.
That is making it way too complicated.
Self carriage is self collection. According to W Museler, in Riding Logic, it is the apparent automatic maintenance of the position which the rider has requested.
The opposite of self collection is the horse leaning heavily on the bit.
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:14 PM   #8
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Yep that is a good definition of self carriage, but I was just taking a crack at Baquero' s question of how do we achieve it, and develop it.

Would like to your thoughts on this jimmy and Baquero
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Old 10-10-2013, 04:37 PM   #9
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Jimmy I just re-read your post with the W Muesler quote, and this time it actually sank in!

Thankyou

I dont know where I was going with my previous thought, overcomplicating it just like you and baquero had mentioned
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:51 AM   #10
Mares Tales
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The term "self carriage" to me, while carrying a rider, is allowing the horse to assume the best possible balance without getting in it`s way for the task it is about to do.

In other words, the horse knows how to move it`s body in the best way it will need to survive. Horses collect automatically to retreat from a threat, to get out of a tight spot, go from a stop to full throttle in a second without a rider. Horses instinctly relax the topline while raising the base of the neck and lightening the forehand, engaging the hindquarters. The best a rider can do is not give the horse anything to worry about so the horse can let go and do it`s job.

A person can help the horse by their own position in the saddle; their equitation, (their OWN self carriage) and they can also help the horse to develope the needed muscles for engaging through the proper use of exercises (gymnasticizing, the process that the old masters used to straighten and develope a high school horse) but to keep it simple I would say............develope in yourself the ability to blend in with the horses movement, stay balanced so the horse can balance and be perfectly clear with your preparation and request....... and that should take a person a lifetime of perfecting.

Last edited by Mares Tales; 10-21-2013 at 02:15 AM.
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