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Old 11-12-2012, 05:14 PM   #11
MikeF
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Obviously Flyingcollie did not read my post...too busy pushing their agenda I suppose! My comment included the fact that "there are situations and circumstances which shoes are beneficial". Unlike the farriers I've encountered here locally, I am college educated and have sought all information I can with regard to anatomy and barefoot practices. Now I'm interested in learning shoeing from the BEST, not some farrier that barely finished highschool.

In addition, these generalizations about horses with white hooves is garbage. I have a horse that has never been shod and has been ridden daylight to dark in the mountains and will not miss a beat on gravel roads...oh, and by the way, he has white hooves!
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:37 PM   #12
Travis Morgan Horseshoein
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Don't start that, "I went to college, so I'm obviously smart" The dogma is more than enough, without that.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:47 PM   #13
MikeF
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Didn't mean to offend those that haven't had the opportunity to attend college. My point was that I am not a proponent of the barefoot movement, but I study all that I can, and I want to know who is regarded as the 'Best' to learn from about shoeing.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:13 PM   #14
flyingcollie
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Mike, you've got an attitude that'd be better to lose. I read your post alright, and I answered your question, as well as I could, in the spirit of friendly conversation. That usually leads to more comments from other folks and more information, then we all benefit. What I don't have is an "agenda".

I don't take too kindly to your saying my comment about white hooves is "garbage". As for being a generalization, let's clear that up. I've known some hard cases who'd get all fuzzed up about "not going to own a horse with white hooves" but I'm sure not one of them. I ain't seen it all, but as yet, I've never seen a white hoof that's as hard as a black or brown one . . . on any critter - horse, cow or even a sheep. If you have, I find that mighty interesting.

After all, the varying wearability of hooves is just another good reason for shoeing a using horse.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:48 PM   #15
MikeF
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Again, I'm not here to argue barefoot versus shod...and I'm not taking an attitude. It seems like people on forums just like to argue or regurgitate what they think they know. Travis was the one spouting insults at Strasser and that so-called "idiot". I've witnessed both Certified Barefoot Specialists as well as big name farriers that didn't know s**t. I admit my lack of knowledge regarding shoeing but that knowledge is what I seek.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:06 PM   #16
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Let's keep the finger pointing out of the discussions and focus on the topic.
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:06 PM   #17
Jimmy
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I am puzzled about the white hoof deal. I am not really sure, and I shoe horses. It is hard to reject it, when so many people swear they have proof. I just don't know why a white hoof would be any different, because there is nothing inherent about pigment that would affect structure. I have never seen any scientific proof, or microscopic evidence that there is any structural difference, and yet there is a ton of anecdotal evidence that says white feet are weaker or wear faster. I do know that a horses can have one hoof that is weaker, or more problematic than the others, even with black feet. It may be just coincidental that the white foot happens to be the one with the problem A law of average kind of thing. I just don't know how pigment could affect structure. But I don't know a lot of things.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:50 AM   #18
Travis Morgan Horseshoein
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Mike,
Hildrud Strasser and Pete Ramey have lamed more horses than you can shake a stick at. Their work is based on studies that were skewed or that just had nothing to do with the modern, domesticated horse.

Two of these studies are known as "The mustang study" and "The brumby study". A modern, domestic horse has typically been bred with an eye towards everything but bones and feet. They don't travel twenty or more miles a day over rocks varied surfaces, nor sink ankle deep in mud to drink. They don't have choices of what to eat by browsing, nor do they get chased by predators.
Trimming a horse and letting it be sore for six months is NOT a "transition period", it's torture. Some horses, due to breeding or environment, are not meant to be barefoot.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:14 AM   #19
flyingcollie
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Jimmy, it's been my experience dealing with hooves on the critters I mentioned that white hooves are just a wee bit softer. No one worries too much about how that affects sheep or cattle, and it seems livestock with white hooves don't fare any worse than those with color. In horses I've owned, it's seemed (to me) that when it's time to re-set, oftimes the shoes on white hooves are just a wee bit looser. When horses have been turned out barefoot on open range, again, it's seems (to me) white hooves are more likely to be chipped, and a bit more "ragged" when you go to trim and shoe.

For my part, if there is a difference in hardness because of color, I hardly think it's enough to make a "real life" difference in a using horse.

Last edited by flyingcollie; 11-13-2012 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:46 PM   #20
MikeF
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Flyingcollie: Somehow you got the impression that I was taking an attitude, that was not my intention. Your first response to me was that you didn't think I was convinced that a horse should be shod...I'm not, except in certain cases. I do, however, have a horse that would do better shod because of poor genetics. I also recognize that you did give me info regarding where to look, and that was much appreciated. I might have gotten a little uptight that you seemed to be trying to debate the barefoot/shod issue.

Jimmy: you're absolutely correct, pigment does not affect structure...breed, genetics, environment, and nutrition does.

Travis: I have studied Strasser, Ramey, and a host of others. I'll listen to anyone to get the best information. My original post was not trying to convince anyone about barefoot practices...I was just asking where to look for the best information. You made a good point about barefoot trimmers making horses lame. That is a lack of education on their part. I experienced that years ago with a so-called "certified barefoot specialist". That was what started my study of barefoot trimming. "Transition period" is a poor choice of words that has been used way too much. "Rehabilitation" is more accurate and the horses should be treated as such.
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