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Old 09-10-2013, 05:34 PM   #1
Jimmy
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Default Here is my project making a hackamore horse, and trying to start out right...

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Old 09-10-2013, 09:11 PM   #2
Baquero
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Great video! I am pretty certain I would not be able to put something like that together. Looks great, congratulations on the new "Craigslist" horse and starting three cheers for starting a new one.

A few observations, keep us posted on how the hackamore works with all of that padding on there. The hackamore you are using is pretty large in my opinion, this makes you have to take extra wraps and changes the balance of the hackamore. The nose button is longer than I like, this makes for a slower release, the extra weight of the extra wraps will help speed up the action. But the "roughing up" you are seeing on the horse comes from the bouncing and fit of the hackamore you are using. But you can make do with what you have, you may not have the same results though.

Also while riding make sure you keep your hands in close, the hackamore reins come back to your hip. But when you are using the reins you are working your elbow not your shoulder. Doing these things will help keep your body in balance and your horse straight. And then when you are turning, act as though you are on a swivel, keep your seat and head stationary but bend at the ribs. Compressing one side and not the other, this is what you are asking your horse to mimic and will be a key to getting them to work off of signals in your seat.

Just a few things, but looks like a nice project she is coming along well. Make more videos...
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:29 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Baquero View Post
Great video! I am pretty certain I would not be able to put something like that together. Looks great, congratulations on the new "Craigslist" horse and starting three cheers for starting a new one.

A few observations, keep us posted on how the hackamore works with all of that padding on there. The hackamore you are using is pretty large in my opinion, this makes you have to take extra wraps and changes the balance of the hackamore. The nose button is longer than I like, this makes for a slower release, the extra weight of the extra wraps will help speed up the action. But the "roughing up" you are seeing on the horse comes from the bouncing and fit of the hackamore you are using. But you can make do with what you have, you may not have the same results though.

Also while riding make sure you keep your hands in close, the hackamore reins come back to your hip. But when you are using the reins you are working your elbow not your shoulder. Doing these things will help keep your body in balance and your horse straight. And then when you are turning, act as though you are on a swivel, keep your seat and head stationary but bend at the ribs. Compressing one side and not the other, this is what you are asking your horse to mimic and will be a key to getting them to work off of signals in your seat.

Just a few things, but looks like a nice project she is coming along well. Make more videos...
Thanks for your comments. I posted this after I shared on a classical californio workshop page about this sensitive filly striking at her head when first feeling the hackamore, like it was a nerve line or something. That is why I reshaped the bosal and padded it. If I had a real nice soft leather bosal, I would use that. I wanted to take any bite out of it that I could. So the padding works well for her. She has a fairly refined jaw, so a smaller length bosal would be good maybe. There are two wraps, then the reins, then the wrap on top. There is a fine line in adjustments, I think. I am attempting to work within her sensitivity, without destroying it, because she offers a lot of feel. I think a fellow would be good to have at least ten different bosals in his collection. I might have to learn how to braid the ones I need. I'm just a poor horse trainer!
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Old 09-14-2013, 10:12 AM   #4
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Thanks for your comments. I posted this after I shared on a classical californio workshop page about this sensitive filly striking at her head when first feeling the hackamore, like it was a nerve line or something. That is why I reshaped the bosal and padded it. If I had a real nice soft leather bosal, I would use that. I wanted to take any bite out of it that I could. So the padding works well for her. She has a fairly refined jaw, so a smaller length bosal would be good maybe. There are two wraps, then the reins, then the wrap on top. There is a fine line in adjustments, I think. I am attempting to work within her sensitivity, without destroying it, because she offers a lot of feel. I think a fellow would be good to have at least ten different bosals in his collection. I might have to learn how to braid the ones I need. I'm just a poor horse trainer!
It is true, you can never have enough hackamores. I think the padding is a good idea to keep from soreing your horse but it will also dull your signals. If a hackamore fits well you can ride all day long in it without rubbing any hair off of your horse. But sometimes hair rubbing happens. I like to have 1 to 2 wraps on my hackamores, it seems to have the right balance and release this way. Sorry for all the talk about gear instead of riding, I am just a firm believer that if your horse is comfortable he will work for and with you. And you don't want an improper fitting hackamore to cause unnecessary braces in your horse.

All that aside, I think you are doing good with what you have. We need more videos...
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Old 09-14-2013, 06:53 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Baquero View Post
It is true, you can never have enough hackamores. I think the padding is a good idea to keep from soreing your horse but it will also dull your signals. If a hackamore fits well you can ride all day long in it without rubbing any hair off of your horse. But sometimes hair rubbing happens. I like to have 1 to 2 wraps on my hackamores, it seems to have the right balance and release this way. Sorry for all the talk about gear instead of riding, I am just a firm believer that if your horse is comfortable he will work for and with you. And you don't want an improper fitting hackamore to cause unnecessary braces in your horse.

All that aside, I think you are doing good with what you have. We need more videos...
She has a very fine muzzle, jaw area. I need a smaller bosal in order to get one to two wraps. There goes he bank account! There is not anything dull feeling about this filly. The up side is that I am having to be very careful in how I handle this hackamore, with that much weight and swing from the wraps I have to take. So it is teaching me a lot. She darn sure lets me know when its too much.
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:16 AM   #6
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She has a very fine muzzle, jaw area. I need a smaller bosal in order to get one to two wraps. There goes he bank account! There is not anything dull feeling about this filly. The up side is that I am having to be very careful in how I handle this hackamore, with that much weight and swing from the wraps I have to take. So it is teaching me a lot. She darn sure lets me know when its too much.
By smaller bosal, keep with the same diameter just a smaller length between nose button and heel knot. I generally like mine to be 10 1/2 to 11" it seems to fit most of the horses I ride. This will help close those gaps between the cheeks and should allow you to require less for a signal. Looks like a nice horse though, should be a fun mount. How is the progress coming on this filly?
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Old 09-28-2013, 06:57 PM   #7
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That bosal is 11". She needs a ten, probably. But its working as it is.
I promised a video. I am going to have to find some one to run the camera. I am moving around quite a bit now.
This has been really interesting for me. I am working with my reins directly in front of me, sometimes one handed, sometimes with two, but only about a foot apart. I have tried to avoid leading her out to the side, or taking her head around, or doubling, allthough I have had to do that only a few times. Sofltly doubling at a walk, at the very leost. At least,I was convinced it was necessary at the time.. I lift up, not pulling back.
One interesting observsation is that the hackamore works like computer language. It's binary. It's on or off, or combinations of ons and offs. The bosal can only rotate back and then forward. On and then off. So one signal/pull/release/bump, whatever you want to call it, for stopping could be the same for a turn. What then differentiates it to the horse, I believe, is the corresponding position of your body, hips, torso, along with hand position. This type of training is associative training, as opposed to pressure release, although that plays a small part too. Since you cannot just put the horse where he should be, like you can in a snaffle, the horse has to really understand what you are doing, and what he is going to do. With pressure/release you create the movement. In the way I am trying to operate, I want the horse to instigate the movement, while I follow through with the correct or consistent position I eventually want him to associate that movement with. Make sense? For instance, riding out, there is always something the young horse like this filly will be spooky about. She wants to move her feet. He moves are pretty handy, so I just try and get in position for those moves she is going to make anyway. She is learning the cues from the positions by association. Or when your about to lope off, however she is shaping up for whatever lead, you get with that, and add your cue in there. The cue at first has no meaning, she is going to lope anyway. You feel the lead about to happen, and get your body there. This is really amazing the way it works. I always had "put a lot on them" in the past. But you just cannot push and pull your way through things or hold on to them with the hack. This way, I hardly have anything on her, as far as being able to push her around with my leg or spur. It as if you aren't really teaching control at first. You have to drift with them, stay in the center, stay balanced, not fall off, and stay light. It is not easy on a young ticklish horse. Their mind has to get right, or it won't work. Easier really the other way. Believe me, I have almost reached for my snaffle several times. But I am compelled see this through. But the pay off is huge. Ever complain those young horses felt so light at first, then through training ended up heavy.? I think here is a way to keep that lightness in there. It takes longer, though.
One other observation. There comes a time I think you need the slightest cushion to the hackamore. In other words, if you just want to slow down, and you need to use the hackamore, there needs to be a little feel of a cushion, instead of them slamming on the brakes, because they felt the signal. That is where maybe the feel of two hands come into play.?
It important also to note that the horse has to stay straight up through the shoulder, so their feet reach out right while moving forward. Using the feel of the macate against their neck in the associative fashion, while they are traveling straight, even on a circle. You can get shoulder control with your rein, and not so much leg. You can do this without picking up on the hackamore.
Needless to say, this is tricky stuff. But his filly is teaching me this stuff. Maybe I all ready knew it, but was just waiting for the right horse to apply it too.....
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:47 AM   #8
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Jimmy, for sake of the discussion I started a new "thread" and posted the information about your project horse in it. This way people can respond directly to it and it doesn't get lost in the 5 pages that the other thread was.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:39 AM   #9
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That bosal is 11". She needs a ten, probably. But its working as it is.
Don't feel like you need to go buy a new hackamore. Make due with what you have, you will learn a lot for when you want to buy your next one. Do you have a 1/2" hackamore?

Keep the reins in front of you, I like to keep the "box" the reins are in between my hips. I ride with a loop in my mecate to help me stay focused on this distance but there are times when I venture out past my hips. My goal is to bring them in to the center. Richard Caldwell used to always say "the mecate reins are to be pulled back to the hip" I have found I am more apt to change the position of my pelvis the more I lift the reins. This isn't to say I don't lift my reins, I just do it very slightly if any.

Excellent observations, we need more people posting up like you. I plan on starting a new hackamore horse here after hunting season is over and might post up some thoughts, you are inspiring me. The hackamore will teach you where you are as a rider. I learn a lot about myself when I am riding in the hackamore. You have to think a bit more, than if you are riding in a snaffle. It is easy to cheat your hands when you are in a snaffle. With the hackamore, you do a lot more of setting things up for the horse to find. Then when they find it, you reward them. A lot of this has to do with timing, if we understood timing better the horse would step out more naturally. I have been watching the Snaffle Bit Futurity this weekend and have noticed that a lot of the riders use the snaffle as you described to put the horse in position, they attain false collection this way. However as you watch there as some very talented riders who are doing great things in the arena. You can notice there timing is better, this only helps the horse.
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Old 10-06-2013, 05:29 PM   #10
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Here is part two of the hackamore filly. I promise next time it won't be so long, again. I seem to be a little long winded. But I thought I would share my thoughts. Not saying this is the way to do things. This is just what I have been doing lately. Hope you get something out of it.




http://youtu.be/_9pQyf064vU
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